Friday night, two friends came out to watched me ride Riley. Thank God they are good, supportive friends, because it weren't pretty. It was after 8pm, it was about 24 degrees out, and Riley seemed anxious all by himself in the indoor. He was uncharacteristically spooky/tense, which is unlike him. We went around with his head alternately high in the air or rooting around his knees, and he was snatching fussily at the bit. I think I was nervous riding in front of others, but was I that nervous? My friends were helpful, assuring me it was not as bad as I was feeling it was. Then toward the end, I heard a sound I really, really didn't want to hear.
Riley was grinding his teeth.
I walked him on a long rein and looked at his face, which did look unhappy and tense. I got off. But I didn't think it was a good idea to quit -- every ride should end on a good note.
"Heather," I asked, "Would you get on him?"
Heather had not come to ride, but she gamely put on my tall boots. She is 5'3" and could only zip them up 3/4 of the way so that her knee would articulate. she looked like a spanish riding school master. She stuffed her hair in my helmet so it would fit her better. We shortened the stirrups. She got on, and walked him on a circle. He seemed a little worried but he was quiet -- so she pushed him to a trot.
Riley travelled with his head at his knees, then in the air, but in a few circles he started to relax. Heather used to exercise racehorses, and she grew up riding Saddlebreds. She knows how to sit quietly. In about 3 minutes he was travelling with a "falling down" neck and steady contact, though not round. He looked calm and relaxed, and we were all satisfied that it was safe to quit.
The grinding wasn't noticeable or loud except to me, the rider, but that and the rooting behavior I think stem from the same problem. My initial thought would be just go on a long rein, but then he dives with his head at his knees - not nose reaching for the bit but more defensively thrust straight down. To be honest he does this on the lunge too.
Suggestions, guys?
I remember years ago reading an article by Lendon Gray on correcting curling/overbent horses. When I find it I'll summarize her suggestions.
PS -- I rode again the next day, and it went much better. He did grind a little off and on, but when I changed things up (transition, change of direction, even half halt) he stopped. Meanwhile I'm trying to by more conscious of my hands -- specifically I lay them against the saddle pad when I'm tempted to fuss.
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This isn't a long-term solution, but when I have a bad riding day where my horse just doesn't relax despite my best efforts, I sometimes just stop worrying about whether it's on the bit and relaxed or not, and just focus on my seat. I'll keep a fairly loose rein, just ride forward and work on things such as sitting up and back, keeping my hands/arms relaxed and giving, and any bad habits I might have.
ReplyDeleteUsually, the result is that my horse all of a sudden relaxes and quite often I ended up having a really good ride in the end.
My problem, I guess, is that I just keep correcting and correcting, thereby fiddling to much with the reins and becoming tense.
Without seeing him I cannot be certain of the problem, but based on what I have read, it sounds like he's having a problem in his mouth.
ReplyDeleteObviously not having been there, this is my guess based upon my own experiences/tendencies.
ReplyDeleteTense/spooky horse = reluctance to go forward, tendency to grip, and tendency to hold back/stiffen and not have a soft elbow/shoulder and following hand.
Resting your hand on the pad is good at a *trot* because horses don't really move their heads, but if you're walking or cantering it shows up as unyielding and more tense for a horse who is used to your hand following his movement in a less tense situation.
Most of all, though, you need to go *forward* when a horse is like that. And we all naturally want to hold the horse back. "Oh, you won't be spooky or tense in the dark and cold if I just HOLD ON TIGHTER!" That's what we instinctively want to do, even when we're intellectually saying "of course that's not the answer and will make things worse." For my mom's horse, who is lower energy and probably more like Riley when riled up, I actually transition between a forward trot and a solid walk about 5 times, and mentally she returns right to me. I don't worry about her head or anything, but as she starts to pay attention and use her hind end as she anticipates the transition, it returns to where it should be with my steady contact. With my OTTB who likes to RUN when excited, we just trot circles, serpentines, and all kinds of shapes including no straight lines but many changes of direction until he starts to relax and bend properly. Once you get your horse's brain on you again, it's easy - but the trick is getting them in the first place! The longer you go into your ride without getting their attention, the harder it will be to get. My very forward OTTB actually resists by refusing to walk forward. I have to immediately make him more forward at the walk - that's the little mini "battle" we have each ride which determines if he's going to listen to me or not.
Look at Jean Luc Cornille's website, the scienceofmotion. He's really good at getting a horse to move through properly. And if you're in south Florida, my trainer, Dianne Cohoon, takes in rescues and reteaches them (in the classical style). She finds horses like mine who's an ex-trotter who is doing dressage and jumping right now--he was about to be killed. And several others. Warmbloods, appaloosas, quarter horses, paints, thoroughbreds, mustangs, ponies, standardbreds, you name it, she's worked with every horse and every problem in the book.
ReplyDeleteSometimes when my horse is like this, it's because I'm tense. Sometimes, it's because he's tense. I resolve the situations differently, but if I feel the downward spiral start, I change things up immediately, because we just feed of each other and get worse instead of better.
ReplyDeleteFirst I make sure it's not me. I take a bunch of deep breaths, take my feet out of the stirrups, swing my legs around, shrug my shoulders, roll my neck, whatever. When I pick the reins back up, I concentrate on riding like a sack of potatoes - loose and noodle-like. When I post, I make sure the motion of the horse is throwing me out of the saddle, instead of "popping" out of the saddle like I sometimes do. I throw the reins away and just regroup - take my legs off and ride from voice, whatever. I don't care if it's not pretty, I just need to remind my body to loosen up!
If my horse is high as a kite, I don't trot - instead, I walk. You can get a lot done at a walk, and work hard at it too. We walk 10 m serpentines, we do 1/4 turn on the forehand/haunches (he really can't do these yet, but we pretend), we do 10/15 m figure eights, we do shoulder fore or shoulder in, leg yields, squares, lenthenings and shortenings... ANYTHING I can think up to get him moving off my leg, yielding to my leg and hand, and focusing on me. My goal isn't to make my figures perfect, but to get my horse thinking and listening.
Once I feel like he's really there for me, I might pick up a trot and do a few quiet 15 or 20 m circles, with some transitions thrown in. If we've really got it back together, I might go on with a regular work-out. I might call it a day with just the walk work. Or if things were just really in a handbasket and we couldn't seem to connect for that ride, I'd probably hop off and go longe instead.
Having said all that, it is SO FRUSTRATING when you have your ride planned out and then you get on your horse and have to change tactics so drastically. But as you both progress, you'll have fewer and fewer of those days. :)
Sometimes when my horse is like this, it's because I'm tense. Sometimes, it's because he's tense. I resolve the situations differently, but if I feel the downward spiral start, I change things up immediately, because we just feed of each other and get worse instead of better.
ReplyDeleteFirst I make sure it's not me. I take a bunch of deep breaths, take my feet out of the stirrups, swing my legs around, shrug my shoulders, roll my neck, whatever. When I pick the reins back up, I concentrate on riding like a sack of potatoes - loose and noodle-like. When I post, I make sure the motion of the horse is throwing me out of the saddle, instead of "popping" out of the saddle like I sometimes do. I throw the reins away and just regroup - take my legs off and ride from voice, whatever. I don't care if it's not pretty, I just need to remind my body to loosen up!
If my horse is high as a kite, I don't trot - instead, I walk. You can get a lot done at a walk, and work hard at it too. We walk 10 m serpentines, we do 1/4 turn on the forehand/haunches (he really can't do these yet, but we pretend), we do 10/15 m figure eights, we do shoulder fore or shoulder in, leg yields, squares, lenthenings and shortenings... ANYTHING I can think up to get him moving off my leg, yielding to my leg and hand, and focusing on me. My goal isn't to make my figures perfect, but to get my horse thinking and listening.
Once I feel like he's really there for me, I might pick up a trot and do a few quiet 15 or 20 m circles, with some transitions thrown in. If we've really got it back together, I might go on with a regular work-out. I might call it a day with just the walk work. Or if things were just really in a handbasket and we couldn't seem to connect for that ride, I'd probably hop off and go longe instead.
Having said all that, it is SO FRUSTRATING when you have your ride planned out and then you get on your horse and have to change tactics so drastically. But as you both progress, you'll have fewer and fewer of those days. :)
I think you've got it. Just change things up. Do something different. My biggest boy Quinn does the grinding when he's supremely frustrated. He's an English horse, but I ride him both English and Western and use him for almost everything. I used him on a cattle roundup this spring and he started in on the grinding after we'd had a marathon of roundup and then a very slow drive a few miles to another pasture. He just couldn't stand going that slow and not being in front (race horse background). Once he started popping the front end up and leaping around, I fell back and went to circling bushes. We circled every single bush at a trot for 1/2 mile. (I find this tedious and boring, but it works)
ReplyDeleteOnce we got the herd thru a gate, drag riders converged and the boss said someone needed to go check another gate, 1/2 mile away. I volunteered and took him for a nice hand gallop. By the time we got to the gate and turned back, we were a full mile behind the herd and other riders. I went to a walk, dropped my reins and played "Can you guide your horse with no reins" to amuse myself on our way home. Grinding was all gone, relaxed horse was back. Best of all, he really listened well to my legs.
What you're did is right. He'll come around.
I was wrestling with this with Dawn - it's almost always a learned behavior - they think it is correct. It may require a change of your hand position, and sufficient allowing with your hands so the horse isn't worried about the contact. You may want initially to encourage stretching out and down on a very loose rein.
ReplyDeleteTeeth grinding can indicate nervousness/worry and/or pain. Have you tested Maalox for ulcers? Could also be a dental/bitting issue that's bothering him.
I never had a teeth grinder, but I heard that Gum Bits help that. I don't mean gummy, soft bits. They are little treat-like balls of sweet covered wax. When the horse eats them the wax coats the teeth and.. well, I'm not really sure. I think they make the teeth slide and for some reason the horses are less likely to grind?
ReplyDeleteArabs are notorious for curling. The little buckskin I'm riding was curling and my trainer told me to push him forward and up with my leg - kind of asking him to come off the bit. Then re-establish contact with the poll higher, using your seat to half-halt if he gets speedy when you push him up with your leg. Also doing a few canter strides when he starts to curl at the trot she said would help get him "above" the connection.
I would definitely get teeth checked, check fit of bit, and get chiro out, but other than all that, I will add my personal experience with a Hanoverian who will grind his teeth on occasion. I was told this and witnessed it when I first met him, but since I brought him to live with me, 6 years ago, he has ground his teeth with me exactly three times. All three times were during a lesson when my trainer was having me really push him. He frequently ground his teeth when ridden by her.
ReplyDeleteNow, she is a much more advanced rider than me, by far, but what I figured out riding him every day on my own is that he likes to be warmed up on a loose rein - at the buckle. He likes a slow warm-up and he does much better if I warm up in a sitting rather than rising trot.
Once I get him warmed up that way, he often needs some big cantering, a few baby jumps, anything like that will get him very alert and focused and forward. If I warmed up the way my trainer advised, he would slug along and get annoyed and we would only get to good work the last few minutes of the lesson.
I quite often give him breaks from dressage work - I have three gates from my arena that all lead to different areas of the farm and I will almost always leave one open so we can ride out and do something different for a few minutes several times during the arena work. This makes a HUGE difference in his relaxation, rhythm, and the overall quality of the work.
I have heard from other Hano. owners that they have similar experiences. All I can say is that I paid attention to what worked best for him early on and the teeth grinding I was told about when I bought him has only happened those 3 times.
Have found no physical reason for the grinding - it seems to be for him a kind of resistance to being pushed very hard - he's a very personable, verbal horse (i.e. responds to voice commands to almost everything, including things like "let's do some shoulder-in" etc.
Not saying at all that you were pushing hard, but maybe in the spookier night-time arena, with folks watching, Riley felt "trapped" by the bit and pushed harder than usual.
Also need to add that Keil Bay was 15 when he came to me, and is now approaching 22 - so he was very solid second level at that point and capable of most 3rd/4th level movements - but for him it is truly all in how you ride/ask. He's not what I'd call sensitive but otoh maybe he is - it's just that when you overdo the aids he shuts down instead of getting hot. When I manage to get myself balanced, and use aids that are very light and almost telepathic, he goes into high gear and it is incredible.
Riley is still a baby really - I wonder if it would help to get him out of the arena some and just let him go. (and even as I type that I also know that might not be what I would be capable of doing with a 4-year old! we did it with a QH who was 3 and had been trained western pleasure, very constricted in his movement and we just wanted him to open up and move out some - but he was very very compliant and not at all spooky - and prone to piaffe when nervous, not bolt or buck)
H-m-m. You certainly don't look too busy with your hands when I see you ride, but perhaps Riley's "weather tension" made you anxious and you forwarded that message to him.
ReplyDeleteA good long rein and forward might have helped. But getting someone else on him proved successful this time, so it all ended on a good note.
Could be you were not giving and following with your hands as much as you might normally do because you were a little concerned he might do something silly. It should be better next time you ride.
Breathe..with lungs, hands and body.
I appreciate when people share their problems and we get to read the ideas for solutions. Thanks for that! In a selfish kind of way I guess I feel better knowing that others have problems too :)
ReplyDeleteI'm no expert, but have a horse at a similar stage and I struggle with similar issues sometimes. I use a lot of bending and serpentines to get him accepting (or even on) the bit and this is very handy to manage spookiness too. Also, I tend to post too high, because of the big trot movement (I'm not used to it - my first warm blood). Could you be doing this too?
You mention curling up or over bending. Do you use side reins and if so, could they be too tight?
Just some thoughts. I'm sure you'll sort it out. Over all he's doing so well.
It sounds like you did the right thing. I am certain that the situation had a lot to do with it. You were focused on showing him rather than riding and this affected your communication with him. Such is riding; there is no room for the ego, no matter how earnest. A few months ago I wanted to show my mom my horse's newly installed flying change. He bucked up to high heaven. Oh dear. Good thing the horse elixir is a strong one, because riding sure can be trying.
ReplyDeleteTry not to overthink. You and Riley are learning each other. Tense rides are part of that process. I'm riding my own young horse and find myself stressing about tense moments in the training process...when that happens, I try to switch up the plan a bit...add poles, add groundriving, work on serpentines at the walk...have a freejumping day...mostly I just tell myself that this is a young horse and inconsistency is part of the package.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't overworry. It sounds like you know what to work on!
I think you are spot on with the tension. The fact that your friend got on (I know what you mean in your description of her, exercise riders are enviable gifted at just staying out of the horse's way) and Riley relaxed after a bit, points to rider tension.
ReplyDelete(1) Don't beat yourself up -- it's hard NOT to be tense in the dressage stuff! If he's already a little nervous and then you get tense because he feels different, it's a negative feedback loop.
(2) It's ok to get off when things aren't going well. It's not like he bucked you off and ran away. Horses and riders have bad hair days and I think it's better sometimes to quit when you can just see things are getting worse. Come back again tomorrow -- you are not going to ruin your horse in one ride that didn't go well, don't worry!
(3) If you find the tension coming back, I find it helps to do something silly -- sing a song, if friends are around, tell a couple jokes or funny stories, pitch the reins at horse, shake out your limbs, relaaaaaaaax. Have a giggle, then try again, it helps me!
I just had a breakthrough with this issue and my mare. She had been curling/diving and got to the point that she would object to any leg that encouraged her to come up and into the contact. It felt like a back issue, but I finally figured out it was a mouth issue. Even though she was in a soft double jointed loose ring, it was doing bad things to the tongue and bars... new bit, new horse, she's reaching forward and into the stretch instead of ducking away and diving...
ReplyDeletemight just be worth double checking so you can rule it out!