Talk about hyperflexion is heating up bulletin boards again. I admit I did not have the stomach to watch the "blue tongue World Cup" video (verbal descriptions are more than adequate). But let's face it, a two hour training session on its face would seem to be questionable, whatever the training method. The trainer is trying to wear down a horse, or punish him, at that point.
This is a video of Anky discussing rollkur/hyperflexion.
She's clearly on the hot seat, and I think she handles it fairly well. There isn't much to criticize in the footage she shares. Bettina Hoy warmed up in much the same way at Rolex, and she had the top dressage ride. That said, Anky does seem rather evasive when certain questions are posed.
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very evasive indeed...Stacy, have you by any chance seen a video where Anky comments on the infamous blue tongue incident? not sure if she ever publicly commented on that, but it would surely be interesting to see - any top dressage competitor's opinion for that matter...
ReplyDeleteenjoy your weekend!
No, but I don't really look for news on this debate. Maybe one exists, but I doubt it. The "players" in international competition are probably not inclined to make public statements -- that's my guess anyway.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree there is nothing to criticize in the video.....she says that there is no fight and then the video shows the horse fighting the bit/hand (starting at 2:46). It is just wrong! She wants variation? Go on a trail ride or jump a small crossrail! :P I should not have watched that video, as it made my blood pressure rise! LOL! ;-)
ReplyDeletePersonally I HATE watching Anky ride. Makes me sick. Whenever I am watching dressage on tv and she comes on I have to change the channel it gets my blood boiling.
ReplyDeleteHyperflexion (rollkur, whatever you want to call it) is not healthy from an anatomical, scientific view for over a few seconds or minutes even. To ride your whole warmup like this is unethical and creates learned helplessness, not a willing partner.
Thanks for sharing - it's a very interesting debate.
ReplyDeleteI have not read anything about this hyper flexion but had a discussion about it with my trainer who travels to Europe frequently. He does not advocate this method. Being able to put your horse that deep is supposed to be within your ability for moments at a time as a training tool but there are spinal issues that could arise from riding like that all the time.
ReplyDeleteI think that after riding the horse that deep they are thrilled to have their heads in a "normal" position and go great.
Julia, that is exactly my opinion. When you're asked to do something out of the ordinary or unpleasant, suddenly the regular old methods look pretty reasonable and horses are glad to comply.
ReplyDeleteShe is convincing because she believes in this method of training and therefore sees nothing wrong with it.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately people will look at her very matter of fact explanation and think, well nothing is wrong, so I can use it too, look at her, she's getting fantastic results from it.
Pity.
Anky is a terrible rider and she (by her own admission) doesn't have a clue. I personally think she's in it for the fame and the money and not the love of the sport or the horses. The less I see of her the better I like it.
ReplyDelete"The horse's ears are still forward" she says. At what point?? This reminds me of the fairy tale The Emperor's new clothes. If I say so, then it must be.
ReplyDeleteI am a (very) new rider. I watched the blue tongue video, which I found disturbing, and to me it doesn't look like a "team" effort. IMHO, it seems that the horse is being forced to perform. It is not a dance between partners. How sad.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's the fact that I'm a lawyer and trained to pick up on people not answering questions, but that video drove me CRAZY. I don't think Anky directly answered a single question that was posed. As for the debate, whenever I am trying to decide if something is wrong, I ask myself if I'd let someone do it to my horse. I can't say I'd stand by and watch someone ride him around with his chin to his chest.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting. You know, she never really answered any of the questions. I think the fame and money have gone to her head. I like her less and less the more I know about her.
ReplyDeletehm, that was interesting. Thanks for posting. I did watch the blue tongue video and it was definitely more disturbing than Anky's ride. Completely beside the rollkur issue, what is with that horse's boots/wraps?!
ReplyDeleteAnky is a professional at the top level, but does not have the tact to keep track of the time she spends in a particular exercise? How does she know if she is accomplishing her intended "variation" of exercises? I am definitely an amateur, but I always wear a watch! Oh, and my horse spends zero minutes in hyperflexion.
ReplyDeleteHarvey spends zero minutes in hyperflexion and 45 of our 45 minute workout is waiting patiently for me to ask for a downward transition.
ReplyDeleteI think the difference I saw in Anky's riding vs the Blue tounge incident is that her hands are clearly more giving than grabbing compared to the blue tounge.
ReplyDeleteI am not advocating rolkur. But I would say that horses competeing at Anky's level are in superb shape and are asked to amazingly difficult things. If you take these athletes and stress them in a way that many of the anti-rolkur movement claim is being done, they would quickly break down and no longer be able to perform at the level that is being shown.
I say this because as I progress up the levels and understand (and experieince) the effort requird for pirouttes and passage and piaffe, its clear to me there is very little margin for error in conditioning and physical fitness.
So that tells me that so long as Anky is using it, and her horses continue to be able to show for years at the upper levels, she can't be causing them the damage that many people are claiming.
THAT SAID - are her horses "one year wonders?" And are other Rolkur users using the technique properly? (meaning are their horses breaking down prematurely?)
Until you can show me things like the blue tounge or horses that are going unsound, then its hard to find merit in the extreme antithesis of rolkur.
And like every training method, you can abuse your horse with it.
I'm not a big fan of Rolkur but I see very little issue with the clips show in this video - unlike the blue tounge video.