I've blogged before about the difficult decision to stop turning Riley out (at least for the near future). It was a tough call, but I think the right one. You make choices that you think will help in some way, even though there is a downside. Some changes you make for short term gains, knowing that you can't do it long term. Glue-ons are a good example -- they keep your horse in work or "pull your butt out of the fire" for a while. Few people use them long term.
That's the way it is with Ri's feet. It's necesary to address one problem knowing that another problem may arise. Ri's photos (below) are a good example.
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| Photo 1 8/16/11 On turnout, no pads. |
I believe this picture was taken at New Bolton. At the time, Ri was doing his "hoppy trot" pretty regularly, and I wanted New Bolton to weigh in on the matter. In this photo, note that:
- The frog looks reasonably good for a horse wearing shoes.
- At the time it was taken, Ri was on turnout.
- He has a gaping hole in the toe.
- It isn't so noticeable here, but he off and on had pretty dramatic white line issues on the 7pm position of the hoof (left of the hole in this photo).
The New Bolton recommendations
After the New Bolton visit in August 2011, we changed two things:
- We started to use pour-in pads on Ri. It made him more comfortable, and he stayed on the pads through 2012.
- We changed the angle on his left front.
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| Photo 2: Foot kept in dry conditions for 10 weeks. Pads have just been removed (to let frog heal). |
Changing things up...
In September Ri lost three shoes in the span of two weeks (only 10 days after a fresh pair of shoes). It was exhausting, and I was at a loss. In October, I changed barns and we changed up Ri's program. Ri is worked daily, but not turned out. He's handled this well, and I am so proud of him. Maybe as his feet improve we can change him back to turnout. I think the decision has paid off, because...
No toe hole!
It is amazing to me. That toe hole has been there since before he had surgery just after he turned 3 -- and now he has a "whole hoof." Yes, it ain't all perfect -- the frog is in bad shape from wearing pads in wet conditions. When this photo was taken he'd been padless for about a week, and we're treating the thrushy frog (green stuff in photo). We'll see what more air exposure will do for the hoof. I want the toe from photo #2, and the frog from photo #1 -- that's the goal!
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ouch. I see pink -- bruising, perhaps? ouch ...
ReplyDeleteStacey, could you please explain the no turnout choice? Is it just to keep his feet out of the wet? Or does he pull shoes in turnout regularly? Just wanting to have a full understanding of the reasons why. :)
ReplyDeleteHi Lisa, I thought the blog post did summarize the reasoning, but if you haven't been following this blog it may seem a little draconian. Ri has been on regular turnout since he was old enuf to be boarded at a regular barn, and it has been quite a trial keeping his feet held together. He had surgery (hoof resection) at age 3 from a traumatic injury, and the hole in the toe never really healed. He was losing shoes every two weeks this fall. Believe me when I say I've done all I possibly can to keep him on some kind of turnout. For the winter, at least, he is going to be stall-kept.
ReplyDeleteI'm amazed the hole is gone!
ReplyDeleteWhat thrush remedy is that?
And I'm sitting on my hands about some other things I see....I've learned that hooves are a more sensitive subject than spouses.
Was nice to hear a update I hope that you'll be able to get the frog from #1 and the toe from #2 I will keep my fingers crossed for you!
ReplyDeleteThe best stuff for thrush is "No Thrush" it has been amazing for my horse who has pedal ostietis (upright confirmation) and he had nasty interbulbular dermatitis. Using it daily cleared it right up, and now I only have to use it every now and again. Its a powder so it keeps things really dry. The liquid stuff has anti-fungal/anti-bacterial properties, but they are still keeping the area moist. Try it, you won't be disappointed. Also, and I am not saying that you don't have a wonderful farrier, but not every farrier is for every horse. I was using a popular farrier who prided himself on being able to fix any horse. The conformational shoeing king. And he was NOT right for my horse. With that farrier, he was in bar shoes and pour in pads to stay sound, and now with a new farrier, we've gotten him back to just regular shoes. He has a ton more foot and thicker hoof wall, and healthy frogs now. And really all that the new farrier changed was the trim and now he is the soundest he's ever been. I figure it's just like finding the right doctor, you have to do what is right for you. Just because someone is supposed to be the best at something, doesn't mean they are the best for you, just my two cents.
ReplyDeleteSo sensitive!! Glad he is doing well.
ReplyDeleteI don't think I could do this, honestly. Keeping a horse in a box 24/7 just isn't any life for a horse. And, the other health problems this can cause make the hoof issues seem like childsplay, imho. Good luck anyway.
ReplyDeleteWell -- that's easy to say when you're not in my shoes. From hard experience I can tell you that I can't even pull his shoes and retire him on turnout. I tried for years, in a variety of conditions. If you have a better plan, I'd love to hear it anon.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear he's living in a stall - have you ever had a Pete Ramey style barefoot practitioner take a look and see what they would do differently in terms of trim and hoof care? I have seen fairly miraculous improvements happen with changes in trimming - I would also look at diet/nutrition. It's obvious you want Riley happy and sound and have gone to great lengths to try and fix this issue. Sending good thoughts to both of you.
ReplyDeleteOkey dokey, here goes the standard disclaimer. Riley has been seen by more than a few farriers and vets in the country, at top clinics, and they have informed Ri's care from his youth when the problems began. He enjoys high quality feed that specializes in providing high quality protein (no middlings, no corn, etc). The general consensus of the experts is his conformation, size, and hoof quality necessitate the wearing of shoes. Going barefoot with a good trimmer got him a hoof resection. Sorry, not going to risk that again.
ReplyDeleteHorses with suspensory injuries go on stall rest, and a lot of horses in this world do not go on turnout. Yep, there are tradeoffs -- I'm aware, that is why I've tried so hard to make turnout part of his life when possible. I hope the no-turnout part of his life is not forever, but it is definitely best for him now.
I'm amazed at the sheer number of armchair owners/farriers/vets/trainers/etc that I find on the internet. Riley's toe is looking great -- it's been so long, I can't believe the hole is finally gone!
ReplyDeleteDon't mind the naysayers. You have to do what's right for YOUR horse. Yes, turnout would be nice, but it's not as though he's sitting in his stall all day. He is getting out, getting attention, and getting movement in. He is hardly neglected. :-)
ReplyDeleteMy only suggestion is to also try the No Thrush and/or occasional soaks with Oxine or White Lightning. Between his thrush and history of white line issues, it may be helpful since it gets into the cracks and crevices. Also, a woman at my barn has seen amazing improvement in her gelding's problem hooves (faster growth, better quality new hoof) using Mushroom Matrix. Could be worth looking into for Ri.
Keep in mind, every horse is different. Some enjoy being in stalls, some hate it. As long as the horse is getting proper care and exercise and they are not stressed by being inside I really don't see why it should matter.
ReplyDeleteI'd try hoof boots and pads for turnout and see if that helps. I've had tremendous luck with founder rehab, crappy hooves, sore hooves, tiny little quarter horse feet, etc by using boots with pads and Oxine AH/White Lightning soaks. I know you feel like you don't have choices, but the smaller the back of his foot gets, the more the digital cushion atrophies.
ReplyDeleteI like reading Ri updates. Please don't stop just because they are controversial. : )
ReplyDeleteOh, I know that most people are being helpful--I also don't mind the more critical posts when people sign their name or know my blog/have posted before--my blog friends are informed people, and they always make a good point. Anonymous posters are like the cowardly lion IMHO, and I've found their comments to be intentionally mean. Some of the anons I actually know, which is interesting.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to hooves, people can be so passionate! The barefoot people seem to feel strongly that there is "only one answer" to a hoof problem. Others have suggested that limited or no turnout for Ri is cruel. I agree that it is not ideal. If you think that it's not "natural" to confine a horse, well, it isn't natural to ride them, or shoe them, or strap leather to their backs or put bits in their mouths, so we've already missed the boat on that one. Horses are injured every day because of the way we ride them and the things we ask of them. And unfortunately, we've bred out a lot of the conformation and hoof traits that allow horses to roam around without shoes and survive. This is certainly true of Ri. I ask myself, am I doing the best I can with Ri? Am I doing everything I can? The answer is yes, so I can't get too worked up...
Just want to be clear - I was not suggesting he isn't getting a premium, high quality feed - but I have learned from experience that many things improve when the diet is balanced - meaning the individual ratios of the minerals are balanced - and when the feed and the hay are looked at from this perspective. A lot of hays are good in many ways but the copper/zinc/iron ratios are way off, and I have seen really nice things happen when this is addressed.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the barefoot thing goes, I'm not saying it fixes everything - clearly in some cases it does not. But barefoot trimmers are just like farriers - you have to find the right one. We had the same one for years until one of my little donkeys got WLD in his front toes. I found a new trimmer who has fixed the problem that led to that and taught us how to touch up the trims in between visits, and this has really made the difference. The previous one wanted me to treat and soak and deal with the results of a not quite right trim - the new one found the right trim (for each horse and donkey) and taught me how to maintain it so we don't get the negative results in the first place.
All that aside, you are obviously going to great lengths to keep Riley healthy and happy - here's to success with that and many great years of riding for the two of you!
Stacey, everyone's a critic, especially from behind the safety of a computer monitor. It sounds like you have done more than your due diligence when it comes to his hoof care regiment and you are really looking out for his best interest. Though no turnout sucks in the short term, if it gives the foot a chance to fully heal and start growing a healthier hoof wall, in theory it will mean better things for him in the long term.
ReplyDeleteThe wet is definitely not good for horse feet. That is a tough call and sometimes a compromise is the only option.
ReplyDeleteI board my horse, too, so I understand that as boarders we are not free to make special arrangements for our horses. For example, I wish (a thousand times over) that my hardkeeper could be on free-choice hay, but that is not within my power and I do not have the means to relocate. If I could wish for anything for your Riley, it would be a dry-lot, something with excellent drainage and absolutely no mud, so that he could still be on turnout. I would throw in some pea gravel for optimum hoof comfort and conditioning. In reality, I am sure that creating a dry-lot for your horse is no more possible than my little dream of endless hay bales. And I am certain that you would want that for him.
So I asked myself what would I do in your situation and given the circumstances you have described? I think that I would try to compensate for the stall confinement by getting Riley as much movement as possible every day. If there was a hot-walker, I would sign him up. If there was a way to have him hand-walked several times a day, I would do that. I am sure that you already ride him as much as you can and I read that he is getting daily exercise. Standing in a stall may keep his foot dry and in one piece, but it will not make it strong (i.e. the cycle will probably continue). Only movement can do that, which is the philosophy behind paddock paradises and 24/7 turnout. A low-sugar feed is also a good choice for feet, but I am sure that you have already researched that extensively.
I know you've blogged about the Cavallo hoof boots before (I even bought a pair because of your blogs). Not that I am a barefoot convert by any means (my horse still has back shoes), have you tried using hoof boots in turn out and riding barefoot? If you need to keep him shod to ride, have you thought of putting boots on over the shoes just for turn out? I know Easycare says it violates their warranty, but it would prevent him from pulling shoes.
ReplyDeleteThe bad part about hooves is if you make the wrong choice, it takes what seems like forever to correct it. I keep mine barefoot, but that is not an endall for problems let me tell you. I have mine in a dry lot on hay most of the year because my available pasture is only an acre. My dry lot has the pea gravel added and drains relatively well, but will be muddy when it rains buckets for days on end. My TB just always has problems with his frog getting the deep groove in the frog that gets thrushy. Also, every summer once the two horses start going out on grass at some point there is a weed or something that sprouts and effects him with terrible white line issues (they are just finally growing out now in Dec and started in June/July). So I will say barefoot isn't even right unless the diet and the exercise on the right kind of terrain are available. I guess some people are just lucky enough to have that in their home pastures, but others of us have to work out other ways. Hopefully the way you've chosen will work and you won't have to worry about those pain in the arse hooves in 2013.
ReplyDeleteStill looks like there is some funky stuff in where the old whole is creeping in towards the sole. What is that
ReplyDeleteI'm posting as anonymous because I can't figure out how else to post under accounts and such, but if you're curious, I'm Candle from COTH. I'm posting my experience with boots and pads because I've really seen it work in improving frog size and health in a horse who needs to keep moving around in order to become less sensitive. I missed out on boots for YEARS simply because of all the times I went to look for my mare's Easyboot from 20 years ago in a huge field after her recurrent abscesses. They've become so much easier to use that now I like to bring them back up as an option for people who might not know how much they can contribute to rehabbing hooves. In my experience, turnout makes a horse easier to ride, so why not try and see if you can? Signed, Cowardly Lioness
ReplyDeleteHi Candle -- thanks! I have not had great luck with boots -- the cavallo sports fit well and he can wear them about five times in work, but he is such a sensitive chestnut, they seem to rub the bulb. They are fine for walking around but I want ri to be able to exercise. My trainer is up to trying them, and if I could find a pair that really would fit well enough for consistent work I'd be all over it. The farrier is coming today -- maybe it's time for ONE MORE TRIP to Horsemans Outlet. Val, Veronica, Emily, Billie, you have good suggestions. I've often thought that if Ri was in Arizona he would probably have very good feet. I PA there is probably no such thing as a dry lot IMHO :-)
ReplyDeleteI use easyboot Gloves with kneehigh nylons underneath from walmart, but I do also trim myself so it's a lot easier to fit them. The Old Mac's have been a favorite of a lot of trail riders I know, and the nylons seem to help with rubs. I also put a ton of Gold Bond in there and rub that into the bulbs. Hooves are tricky, especially with re-sections. If he's just ouchy, I know people who have loved the new pour in pad for barefoot horses from Vettec called Sole Guard. My go-to hoof strategy is to drink wine, eat a king-size chocolate bar, call a friend and cry, and then go back to working on it. That's my best advice :D -Candle
ReplyDeleteThese and hoof wraps are great for horses who pull off shoes (try tacking on shoes every other day for some very high dollar halter horses because the "regular" farrier lives four states away. http://www.smartpakequine.com/the-hoof-sock-6919p.aspx?cm_sp=CS-_-The%20Hoof%20Sock-_-NA&cm_vc=UpSell
ReplyDeleteAlso not sure if anyone suggested it before but the best for white line disease and thrush is clean trax. I am a professional farrier, I shoe many but most of my clients, especially the backyard ones are completely barefoot. I gave up on white lightning after getting some dumped on my jeans and it ate a flipping hole in the denim!! As a rule I never put anything on my horses feet I wouldn't put on my own skin. If you are treating a pathogen that is attacking the integrity and structures of the hoof why would you put something on it that is going to kill good tissues and create a new feast for the pathogens to feed on? Apple cider vinegar when applied every day all over is a very cheap, effective way of killing gross hoof crud, after a good clean trax soak of course. If you want to see the white line disease case studies I have done (Ri's hoof hole is minor compared to a few clients that had some cracks and holes for an excess of 5+ years before me) feel free to get in touch.